Here's
the gist. Plantinga
argues that if naturalism and evolution are true, then semantic
epiphenomenalism is very probably true - that's to say, the content of
our beliefs does not causally impinge on our behaviour. And if
semantic properties such as having such-and-such content or being true
cannot causally impinge on behaviour, then they cannot be selected for
by unguided evolution. Plantinga's argument requires, crucially, that there be no
conceptual links between belief content and behaviour of a sort that
it's actually very plausible to suppose exist (note that to suppose
there are such conceptual links is not necessarily to suppose that content can be exhaustively
captured in terms of behaviour or functional role, etc. in the way
logical behaviourists or functionalists suppose). It turns out that if
such conceptual links exist, then (rather surprisingly!) natural selection will favour true belief even if belief content is epiphenomenal. So Plantinga is mistaken: even if belief content has no causal impact on behaviour, natural selection can still
select for true belief. The EAAN is therefore refuted. To resurrect the
EAAN, Plantinga would need to show that there are no conceptual links of
the sort I envisage between content and behaviour, links of a sort that,
as I say, do seem to exist.
NATURALISM, EVOLUTION AND TRUE BELIEF
Stephen Law
Plantinga’s
evolutionary argument against naturalism (EAAN) is currently one of the most
widely discussed arguments targeting philosophical naturalism (see, for
example, Beilby 2002). Plantinga aims to show that naturalism, in
combination with evolutionary theory, is, as he puts it, ‘incoherent or
self-defeating’. His argument turns crucially on the claim that, in the absence
of any God-like being to guide the process, natural selection is unlikely to favour
true belief. This, Plantinga supposes, is because natural selection selects
only for adaptive behaviour. It is irrelevant, from the point of view of
unguided evolution, whether the beliefs that happen to cause that adaptive
behaviour are true.
I argue
that, even in its most recent incarnation, the EAAN fails. In particular,
Plantinga overlooks the fact that adherents of naturalism may hold, seemingly
quite plausibly, that there exist certain conceptual links between belief
content and behaviour. Given conceptual links of the sort I envisage, natural
selection will indeed favour true belief.
I then
point out a further interesting, and perhaps somewhat surprising, consequence
of the existence of such conceptual links: that even if semantic properties such
as being a true belief are epiphenomenal – even if such properties have no
causal impact on behaviour – unguided evolution will still favour true belief.
The EAAN
For those
unfamiliar with the EAAN, here is a brief outline.[1]
Let Naturalism (N) be the view that there’s no such person as God or anything
at all like God, and Evolution (E) be the view that our cognitive faculties
have come to be by way of the processes postulated by contemporary evolutionary
theory. Then, argues Plantinga, the combination N&E is incoherent or
self-defeating. This, he maintains, is because if N&E is true, then the
probability that R – that we have reliable cognitive faculties (that is to say,
faculties that produce a preponderance of true over false beliefs in nearby
possible worlds) – is low. But, concludes Plantinga, anyone who sees that
P(R/N&E) is low then has an undefeatable defeater both for R and for any
belief produced by their cognitive faculties, including their belief that N&E.
But why
suppose P(R/N&E) is low? Plantinga supports this premise by means of a
further argument. He begins by asserting that
materialism or physicalism is de rigeur for naturalism… A belief, presuming there are such
things, will be a physical structure of some sort, presumably a neurological
structure. (Forthcoming: 2)
According to a proponent of
naturalism, then, this structure will have both neurophysiological (NP)
properties and semantic properties. However, it is, claims Plantinga, unlikely
that the semantic properties of the neurological structure will have any causal
effect on behaviour:
It
is easy to see how beliefs thus considered can enter the causal chain
leading to behavior; current science gives us a reasonably plausible account of
the process whereby volleys of impulses propagated along the efferent nerves
cause muscle contraction, motor output, and thus behavior. It is exceedingly
difficult to see, however, how they can enter that chain by virtue of their content. A given belief, it seems, would have
had the same causal impact on behavior if it had had the same NP properties,
but different content. (Forthcoming: 2-3)
Plantinga
concludes that N&E makes semantic epiphenomenalism (SE) likely. But, says
Plantinga, if semantic properties such as having such-and-such content or being
true cannot causally impinge on behaviour,
then they cannot be selected for by unguided evolution. Given SE, truth and
falsehood will be, as Plantinga puts it, invisible
to natural selection. In which case, (on the modest assumptions that (i) 75% of
beliefs produced must be true in order for a cognitive mechanism to be reliable
and, (ii) that we have at least 100 such beliefs) P(R/N&E&SE) will be
low.
So runs
the EAAN. Recently, Plantinga has refined the argument by trying to tackle a
certain sort of objection. The objection is that by also embracing, for
example, reductive materialism (RM), adherents of naturalism may, after all,
quite reasonably suppose that they have evolved reliable cognitive faculties.
Why so? Well, on Plantinga’s understanding of RM, content properties just are NP properties. But then,
because NP properties cause behaviour, and semantic properties just are NP
properties, so semantic properties can cause behaviour. And if semantic
properties can cause behaviour, then they can, after all, be selected for by
unguided evolution.
Plantinga’s argument that P(R/N&E&RM)
is low
In his
most recent presentation of the EAAN, Plantinga attempts to deal with the above
objection. He focuses his attention on one semantic property in particular – truth.
Even supposing that semantic properties such as being true can causally affect
behaviour, why, he asks, should we suppose, that unguided evolution favour
beliefs that are true?
According
to Plantinga, the combination N&E&RM gives us no reason to suppose that
the content of belief/neural structures resulting in adaptive behaviour is
likely to be true. Suppose the belief/neural structure resulting in a piece of
adaptive behaviour has the content q.
While the property of having q as content does now enter into the causal chain
leading to that behaviour, it doesn’t matter whether q is true:
What matters is only that the NP property in question cause
adaptive behaviour; whether the content it constitutes is also true is simply
irrelevant. It can do its job of causing adaptive behaviour just as well if it
is false as if it is true. It might be true, and it might be false; it doesn’t
matter. (Forthcoming:10).
But if
the NP property can do its job of causing adaptive behaviour just as well
whether the content is true or false, true belief cannot be favoured by natural
selection. In which case, concludes Plantinga, (PR/N&E&RM) remains low.
Conceptual constraints on likely semantic
content
There is,
it seems to me, a fatal flaw in even this latest incarnation of the EAAN.
Plantinga
supposes that what unguided evolution favours, in the first instance, is
adaptive behaviour. As to what causes that behaviour, evolution doesn’t care.
True beliefs, false beliefs, something else - it’s all the same to evolution.
It is only the result – adaptive behaviour – that is preferred.
But even
if unguided evolution doesn’t care what causes adaptive behaviour, just so long
as it is caused, it may not follow, given certain further facts about belief that natural selection won’t also favour
true belief.
Consider
the suggestion that there exist certain conceptual
constraints on what content a given belief can, or is likely to, have given
its causal relationships to, among other things, behaviour. My claim is that,
given the existence of certain conceptual constraints, unguided evolution will
then tend to favour true belief.
To begin,
let me sketch out a simple illustration of how such constraints might
operate. Suppose we just stipulatively
introduce certain terms/concepts. Let’s say that a subject’s belief state has
content MC1 iff that state has
properties achieving a threshold of at least 30 points, with points allocated
thus:
Property
A +20 points
Property
B +15 points.
Property
C +20 points
Property
D -12 points
Notice
there’s no one property possession of which is essential if a state is to
qualify as having the content MC1. Suppose we similarly stipulate that a
subject’s belief state has content MC2
iff that state possesses properties achieving a threshold of at least 30 points,
with points allocated thus:
Property
D +20 points
Property
E +15 points
Property
F +20 points
Property
A -12 points
Note that
if a subject has a belief state with properties A and B, then, ceteris paribus, that state is rather
more likely to have the content MC1 than it is the content MC2 (though it might
yet turn out to lack content MC1 and possess content MC2 instead if it also
possesses properties D, E and F while lacking C). Now suppose that while not
all these properties involve causal links to behaviour, some do, namely A, C, D
and F. Property A is that of causing behaviour B1 in situation S1, C that of
causing behaviour B2 in situation S2, D that of causing behaviour B3 in
situation S3, and F that of causing behaviour B4 in situation S4.
Having
introduced these conceptual constraints on what it is to have beliefs with the
contents MC1 and MC2, we can now see how natural selection might select not
only for or against certain behaviours in certain situations, but also for or against these two belief contents.
Suppose that exhibiting B1 in S1 and B2 in S2 is in each case adaptive, while
exhibiting B3 in S3 or B4 in S4 is maladaptive. Then, other things being equal,
natural selection will tend to favour subjects holding beliefs with content BC1
over those holding beliefs with content BC2. So, given conceptual constraints
on belief content of the sort outlined above, natural selection need not be blind to belief content. It will
select for some contents over others, depending on the kinds of behavioural
output with which they are conceptually associated.
So now
suppose that constraints of this sort exist on the content of beliefs of the
sort with which we are already familiar – contents such as that there is water
five miles south, that Paris is the capital of France, and so on. Suppose these
constraints conceptually link content with behavioural output. No doubt these
constraints will be more complex than in my illustration. But, supposing they
exist, with what sort of behaviour is a given content likely to be conceptually
linked?
Suppose
that, solely in combination with a very strong desire for water, a certain
belief/neural structure typically results in a subject walking five miles to
the south. Surely, if there are such conceptual links between behaviour and
content, then the property of causing that behaviour in that situation will be
among those properties lending, as it were, a considerable number of points
towards that belief/neural structure achieving the threshold for having the
content that there’s water five miles south. Other things being equal, that
belief/neural structure is much more likely to have the content that there’s
water five miles south than it is, say, the content that there’s isn’t water five miles south, or that
there’s water five miles north, or that there’s a mountain of dung five miles
south, or that Paris is the capital of Bolivia. Perhaps the belief/neural
structure in question might yet turn out to have one of these other contents.
We can know a priori, solely on the basis of conceptual reflection, that, ceteris paribus, the fact that a
belief/neural structure causes that behaviour in that situation significantly
raises the probability that it has the content there’s water five miles south.
Among the various candidates for being the semantic content of the
belief/neural structure in question, the content that there’s water five miles
south will rank fairly high on the list.
But now
notice that, given such conceptual constraints exist, unguided evolution will
indeed favour true belief. Consider our thirsty human. He has a strong desire
for water. He’ll survive only if he walks five miles south to where the only
reachable water is located. He does so and survives. Suppose this adaptive
behaviour is caused by a certain belief/neural structure. If there are
conceptual constraints on belief content of the sort I envisage, and if a
belief/neural structure in that situation typically causes subjects to walk
five miles south, then it is quite likely to have the content that there’s
water five miles south – a true belief. Were our thirsty human to head off
north, on the other hand, as a result of his having a belief/neural structure
that, in that situation, typically causes subjects to walk five miles north,
then it’s rather more likely that the belief in question is that there’s water
five miles north. That’s a false belief. Because it is false, our human will
die.
So if
beliefs/neural structures cause behaviour, and if there are conceptual
constraints linking content with behavioural output of the sort I am
suggesting, then natural selection won’t just favour adaptive behaviour. It
will also favour true belief.
True,
there are other candidates for being the content of the belief that causes our
human to head off in the right direction. Perhaps some are more likely
candidates. Suppose our human has no conception of miles or south. Then,
instead of the belief that causes his behaviour having the content that there’s
water five miles south being, perhaps it has instead the content that there’s
reachable water thataway. However,
notice that, either way, the content of the belief in question is still true.
To sum
up: what Plantinga overlooks, it seems to me, is the possibility that there
exist conceptual constraints on content of the sort outlined here. The
suggestion is that if beliefs are neural structures, then it is at least partly by virtue of its having certain sorts of behavioural consequence
that a given neural structure will have the content it does. If such
constraints exist, then one cannot, as it were, plug any old belief content
into any old neural structure, irrespective of that structure’s behavioural
output. We run up against certain conceptual obstacles. If such conceptual
constraints exist, it appears natural selection will favour not only adaptive
behaviour, but also true belief.
Neither materialism nor functionalism not
presupposed
Note that
to suggest that such conceptual constraints on belief content exist is not, of
course, to presuppose that beliefs are neural structures or that materialism is
true. Let’s suppose, for the sake of argument, that substance dualism is true
and that beliefs are not neural structures, but soul-stuff structures. Then my
suggestion is that we may be able to know on the basis of a little conceptual
reflection that if beliefs are soul-stuff structures, and if a given soul-stuff
structure in combination with a strong desire for water typically results in
subjects walking five miles south, then ceteris
paribus that soul-stuff structure is quite likely to have the content that
there’s water five miles south, and is rather unlikely to have the content that
there’s water five miles north.
Also note
that to suggest that there exist conceptual constraints on content given
behavioural output is not to presuppose the truth of some reductionist,
materialist-friendly theory of content of the sort that Plantinga has gone on
to attack[2],
such as Dretskian indicator semantics or functionalism. Perhaps belief contents
cannot be exhaustively characterized
in terms of their causal connections to input and output, as some
functionalists claim. That’s not to say that there are no conceptual
constraints at all on what the
content of a given belief is likely to be, given the causal links that belief
has to behaviour. Perhaps there are. Consider my illustration involving
contents MC1 and MC2. I stipulated that not all of the weighted properties
involved causal connections with behavioural output. Properties B and E
involved no such connections. Indeed, B
and E might even be properties presenting an insurmountable obstacle to any
attempt to characterize the content of MC1 and MC2 in wholly functionalist
terms. It wouldn’t follow that there are no conceptual constraints at all on beliefs having content MC1 and
MC2 given their behavioural output. Clearly there are.
So, while
the combination N&E&RM might be self-defeating, it seems that the
addition of CC – the thought that there are conceptual constraints on content
of the sort I envisage – produces a combination of beliefs that is not, after
all, self-defeating. It appears there are ways of embracing naturalism that
sidestep Plantinga’s charge of incoherence.
How natural selection can still favour true
belief even if SE is true
In fact,
it turns out that in order to sidestep Plantinga’s charge of incoherence our naturalist doesn’t even have to sign up
to RM. The addition of CC to R&E alone
is sufficient to rescue naturalism from self-defeat, as I’ll now explain.
As we saw
above, Plantinga’s initial worry about naturalism is that it makes semantic
epiphenomenalism (SE) likely. He supposes the naturalist will hold that beliefs
will be neural structures possessing both neurophysiological (NP) properties
and semantic properties. However, Plantinga thinks that only the NP properties
of those structures will then have any causal effect behaviour. A given belief
would have the same causal impact on behaviour if it had the same NP properties
but different semantic properties (or indeed no semantic properties at all).
So now
let’s suppose our naturalist actually bites the bullet and accepts SE – they
actually accept that the semantic properties of a given neurological structure
have no causal impact on behaviour. Plantinga supposes such a naturalist is
then compelled to accept that, because natural selection can only select for
adaptive behaviour and the properties that cause it, so natural selection
cannot select for the semantic property of being true. However, it turns out
that Plantinga’s assumption that natural selection favours only adaptive
behaviour and the properties that cause it is unwarranted. It turns out,
somewhat surprisingly, that, given CC, natural selection will still favour true
belief even if the property of being a true belief has no causal impact on behaviour.
To see
why, let’s return again to our thirsty human. He has a certain belief/neural
structure that, in conjunction his strong desire for water, causes him to walk
five miles south. Given the kind of conceptual constraints outlined above, a
belief/neural structure that causes a subject to walk five miles south given a
strong desire for water will quite probably have the content there’s water five miles south. Notice
it really doesn’t matter whether or not that belief/neural structure causes
that behaviour by virtue of its
having that semantic property. It remains the case that, if that sort of neural
structure for whatever reason has
that behavioural consequence, then, given CC, it quite probably has the content
there’s water five miles south and
probably doesn’t have the conceptual content there’s water five miles north. It matters not whether SE is true:
the behavioural output of a belief/neural structure still places constraints on
its likely content.
But then,
given such conceptual constraints, natural selection is likely to favour true
belief even if SE is true. Odd though
it might seem, given CC, natural
selection will favour true belief even if the property of being a true belief
has no causal impact on behaviour. This is a rather significant discovery,
even setting aside its relevance to Plantinga’s EAAN.
Conclusion
Of
course, I am merely making a suggestion. Perhaps there exist no such conceptual
constraints on belief content of the sort I envisage. Still, the view that
there are such constraints on content is widespread (it is by no means
restricted to those wedded to some form of logical behaviourism or
functionalism, for example). It seems intuitively obvious to many of us that
belief content is not entirely conceptually independent of behavioural output:
that one cannot plug any old belief content into any old neural structure (or
soul-stuff structure, or whatever) entirely independently of its behavioural
output. That intuition would appear to be, philosophically speaking, largely
pre-theoretical. It cannot easily be dismissed by Plantinga as a product of
some prior theoretical bias towards naturalism and/or materialism.
My
central conclusion, then, is this. Plantinga has not shown that naturalism in
combination with the theory of evolution is unavoidably self-defeating. It
appears that an adherent of N&E who also supposes CC is true can, after
all, quite reasonably suppose they have evolved reliable cognitive faculties.
In
response, Plantinga might now try to show that if naturalism is true, there are
unlikely to be conceptual constraints on semantic content of the sort I
describe. Perhaps he can do this. If so, then the EAAN might be resurrected.
But as things stand, it is not naturalism that is defeated, but the EAAN.[3]
Heythrop College,
University of London
London W8 5HN
References
Beilby, J. (ed) 2002. Naturalism
Defeated? Essays on Plantinga's Evolutionary Argument Against Naturalism.
Ithaca: Cornell University Press.
Plantinga, A. Forthcoming. Content and Natural Selection. Philosophy and Phenomenological Research. Currently
available on-line at Plantinga’s departmental webpage: http://philosophy.nd.edu/people/all/profiles/plantinga-alvin/documents/CONTENTANDNATURALSELECTION.pdf
Page numbers refer to the on-line
version.
70 comments:
Thanks for posting your arguments. It seems like a significant objection that Plantinga hasn't addressed.
P.S.: the link to Plantinga's paper isn't working for me. That paper (and many others) can be found in this page (I got the link from a post by ex-apologist on his site).
I think Plantinga has illustrated SE in the past with an organism who might simultaneously believe that: 1) tigers are attractive 2) the proper response to attractive objects is to run from them. He suggests these false beliefs could lead to adaptive behavior, and that without his god to guide evolution and sort these things out, NE will lead to too many false beliefs.
The amygdala is an ancient neural structure which provides emotional valence to our perceptions. It’s the source of our 4 basic “F” instincts: feeding, fighting, fleeing, and mating. To suggest that an organism could simultaneously be attracted to an object and initiate aversive behaviors in response to that same objects belies an ignorance of basic biology on Plantinga’s part. Not to mention that any organism that held belief 2) would find mating problematic.
Would this be an example of the CCs to which you are referring?
'His argument turns crucially on the claim that, in the absence of any God-like being to guide the process, natural selection is unlikely to favour true belief.'
Similarly, seals are very unlikely to be adapted by natural selection to be able to balance a ball on their nose.
So there must be a God.
I'm completely baffled by Plantinga's claim that he has an argument.
His claim is that, if there is no god, the chance of any species developing sophisticated brains is very small.
I look around at the number of species that have developed sophisticated brains and I see that it is very small.
Just like Plantinga said it would be.
Somehow, I am supposed to conclude that naturalism is false, simply because the number of species with sophisticated brains is exactly the same small number that the theory predicts.
Huh? Run that one by me again....
Could somebody tell me why naturalism is false when people like Plantinga keep pointing out just how successful it is at predicting what we see in the world around us?
Hi All,
THE MAYAN SKEPTIC APOCALYPSE 12/21/2012
We really enjoy when comfortable bourgeois atheists talk about the apocalypse...
s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/4979676/1/
Unfinished business
Are these claims "falsifiable? Millions will see this.
we're not KIDDING
eschaton2012.ca/
SKEPTIC APOCALYPSE? DOUBLE!
issuu.com/span/docs/conmag-winter2012-13?mode=window&backgroundColor=%23222222
get to the article on the APOCALYPSE - pg. 22
no, 99% have failed!
I think I am confused.
This:
"the content of our beliefs does not causally impinge on our behaviour"
seems to me to be *extremely* obviously false. So obviously false that I suspect I misapprehend the meaning of it, since, if I don't misapprehend the meaning of it, then why would anyone ever bother to argue about it at length?
It seems to me that if Plantiga's argument depends on it being true that "the content of our beliefs does not causally impinge on our behaviour", then his argument is sunk (actually, it's more like it spontaneously exploded during construction.)
Example: "I believe it is raining outside. Consequently I take an umbrella when I leave the house."
Is that not a trivial demonstration of the content of my beliefs causally impinging on my behavior? If so, Plantinga's argument exploded on the docks. If not, then this posting must be written in a form of English with which I've not previously been acquainted.
-- steve
stevec,
Plantinga argues that if naturalism and evolution are both true, then the content of our beliefs very probably does not have a causal effect on our behavior.
He's not claiming that the content of our beliefs does not have a causal effect on our behavior.
For more details, you could a look at his argument (I posted a link where you can find the paper).
Nice argument, Stephen. But I suspect Plantinga would respond by suggesting that an explanation is needed for these "conceptual constraints", and that God is needed to explain them.
Personally, I would prefer to argue that Plantinga has failed to refute the sort of physicalist position that I hold. His response to RM doesn't do the job. He writes:
"What matters is only that the NP property in question cause adaptive behaviour; whether the content it constitutes is also true is simply irrelevant. It can do its job of causing adaptive behaviour just as well if it is false as if it is true. It might be true, and it might be false; it doesn’t matter. (Forthcoming:10)."
To me this makes little sense, and Plantinga's drawing of distinctions between beliefs, NP states (or properties) and "content" only serves to obfuscate the issue. Whichever of those we talk about, the fact remains that such states are (usually) only adaptive if they have the right kind of relationship to reality. The belief that there's an oasis to the south is (usually) only adaptive if there really is an oasis to the south, i.e. if the belief is true. And the same goes for the NP states on which the belief supervenes. True, we don't talk about a set of NP states being true or false. But that's because the NP level is not the appropriate level of abstraction for our ordinary discourse about propositions and propositional attitudes.
As someone who may have missed a turn or two in this fascinating subject, does anyone here know whether Plantinga has ever (publicly) responded to Stephen's argument?
I am still suspicious of the idea of behavior forming a "conceptual constraint" on belief content. (For the record, I am inclined to resist even functionalism about mental content.) You are clear, Stephen, that the constraint you have in mind is not something like logical behaviorism. But what is it, then? What is the (possible) constitution of the "conceptual constraint" in question?
And my apologies if the answer should already be clear here and I am just being dense. Probably I need to think harder about the examples provided in your piece to see your general view of how it is that belief content is (or could be) conceptually constrained by behavior in any case.
Happy New Year, by the way!
Michael Young,
That's not clear to me, either (i.e., what kind of conceptual links there might be; I'm also inclined to reject funcionalism, btw), though I do not know of any reply by Plantinga.
In any case, Plantinga's claims that it's "de rigueur" for naturalism to "assimilate physicalism to naturalism", and then from that, he claims that a belief would be some sort of neurological structure on naturalism.
But that seems unfounded, because Plantinga's definition of naturalism is essentially that it's a claim that God does not exist (and nothing like that does), or at least plays no role in our evolution, lives, etc., and that our cognitive faculties developed through unguided evolution.
Granted, most people who hold those beliefs will hold that there are no souls, and reject substance dualism. Fair enough, but that still does not suggest that belief is a neural structure. It seems perfectly compatible (and much simpler to me) that some structures (e.g., some brains) do different things; for instance, they believe P, perceive R, desire S, and so on, but there need not be some structure that is the 'belief'.
In terms of properties, maybe one can say that the structure in question (like the brain) has some non-mental properties (e.g., mass) and some mental properties (like beliefs, desires, perceptions, etc.), but that's just what the brain does.
So, Plantinga claims that on naturalism (plus what he thinks is de rigoeur for naturalism), beliefs (which would be a type of neural structure, according to him, but I do not see why accept that) would have the same causal effect on behavior regardless of content, and depending on what he calls "neurophysiological properties", or NP.
But I do not see any good reason to accept that belief would be the structure in question, or that two brains can [nomologically] have the same NP properties but behave differently (including having different beliefs), etc.
Plantinga does not seem to argue for that.
Still, if he were right that propositional content would be invisible to selection under those hypotheses, then the same would seem to apply and for the same reasons to connections between different beliefs, perception, desire, intent (or desire content, intent content, etc., if one prefers), and so on, so we wouldn't even have reasoning, matches between intent, perception and belief (i.e., why should I perceive that I write a post if I intend to? - not that I would even have a mind that can intend to write a post), etc.
In other words, if Plantinga's reasoning were right, alternatively to arguing that our cognitive faculties would probably not be reliable, he could just point out that we shouldn't expect to see any kind of coherence in our subjective experience, but rather just disconnected streams of consciousness.
On the other hand, if a coherent mind has impact on behavior (as it sure does), then mental content impacts behavior, and there is no reason to single out belief and say that there would be any problem with belief in particular.
So, in short, what Plantinga's reasoning seems to imply is that, on naturalism (+ evolution), mental content (e.g., perceptions, belief content, desire content, intent, etc.) would have no impact on behavior; but there seems to be no good reason to accept his claim.
“So, Plantinga claims that on naturalism, beliefs would have the same causal effect on behavior regardless of content, and depending on what he calls "neurophysiological properties", or NP.”
If that’s what Plantinga holds, then I admit that I don’t understand his position. The analogy isn’t perfect, but if a programmer wants to duplicate a popular video game from scratch, he certainly has some leeway in the structure of the code he writes. If ultimately he wants the game to look, sound and feel like the original, though, he is going to be significantly restricted. The ‘1s’ and ‘0s’ that are read by the hardware _are_ the content that determine the behavior of the machine.
The temporal & spatial sequences of synaptic firing _are_ the content. The NPs _are_ what cause the behavior. There is no ‘belief content’ within the sodium/potassium gradients of a depolarized neuron. We can magnetically or electrically (on surgery patients) stimulate specific regions in the brain and elicit phenomenological responses (the smell of oranges). These regions correspond to hyperactivity within seizure patients who experience the same perception & likely correspond to the same regions that light up in fMRI experiments of subjects who are actually smelling oranges in realtime. If two states of propositional knowledge have significantly different NPs, then they aren’t the same belief state.
“Still, if he were right that propositional content would be invisible to selection under those hypotheses, then…”
I know little neuroscience and even less philosophy of mind, but maybe Plantinga & others are drastically overestimating the consequences of the invisibility of propositional content to natural selection, if what is meant by propositional content is self-aware, conscious semantic/symbolic representation of subjective phenomenological states or sensory data.
If the capacity for formal propositional content wasn’t neurologically possible until the appearance of higher apes, then the vast majority of the history of evolution of life on this planet, and the natural selection which drove it, occurred in the complete absence of belief formation. Not just life, but the vast majority of the history of evolution of subcortical neural structures, both central and peripheral, autonomic and nonautonomic, occurred in the complete absence of belief formation.
Evolution shaped our instincts & subconscious motivations first. Only in very recent history (1 mya?) have we evolved the prefrontal cortical structures that are necessary to consciously hold, experience and tweak these instincts.
Look at our distant cousin, the multicellular sea slug Aplysia californica. It evolved not only the capacity for nonassociative learning like habituation, dishabituation & sensitization, but also the capacity for associative learning such as classical & operant conditioning of its gill & siphon withdrawl reflex (GSWR), which is under the control of a mere 13 central motor neurons.
With a very primitive nervous system, these slugs can not only sense & respond to their environment, but they can adapt & change their response to changing conditions within their environment, all without mentally representing their environment at all. Instinct & behavior (autonomic nervous system) evolved _before_ belief formation & mental representation (non-autonomic nervous system).
As far as I understand Plantinga’s position (which I no doubt misunderstand), I get the impression that his understanding of natural evolution is backwards. His story is that an organism holds a belief about reality, and then natural selection operates on the behaviors initiated by that belief relative to how well that belief corresponds with reality. This strikes me as similar to Lamark’s view that giraffes stretch their necks to successfully obtain food, then that behavior gets reverse translated back to the giraffe’s DNA, which then gets passed down to its offspring. This is a violation of basic molecular biology.
The reality is that our genes get shuffled as gametes. This new complement of genes determines the neural structures that will develop in the individual. If this individual’s unique synaptic network gives the individual a survival advantage in the environment he finds himself (i.e. his amygdala is slightly more sensitive, so he initiates fleeing behaviors more often, and his environment contains relatively more predators), then he will outperform his competitors.
The genetic complement comes first, then the neural structures, then the subconscious instincts. Even if this organism has the capacity to hold propositional knowledge, he will likely use these higher order cognitive functions to simply rationalize and justify what are deeply felt subjective emotions. Work in basic psychology with commisurotomy patients has shown how the brain constructs narratives whole cloth in an attempt to harmonize conflicting sensory input.
This isn’t to argue that higher order cognitive structures can’t calculate if, when or how basic instincts should be initiated, but I don’t think that the invisibility of conscious thought to natural selection, if true, would have the slightest effect on the vast history of evolution on this planet, and thus is irrelevant to naturalism.
Angra,
Thanks for this. Your characterization makes me think that Plantinga is effectively burdening the naturalist with semantic epiphenomenalism at the outset, and that this is really the critical move in his argument. In fact, I suppose his larger argument does run on that assumption, i.e., on the assumption that a natural view of belief and mental contents involves (either essentially or as a "de rigueur" agglomeration) a comittment to the thesis of semantic epiphenomenalism.
If this is the right interpretation of what Plantinga is actually up to, then the answer to Plantinga is that the naturalist has resources to resist the commitment (i.e., semantic epiphenomenalism) with which Plantinga would see him saddled. As long as we are justified in thinking that the choice isn't between supernaturalism or epiphenomenalism, then we've got all the resources necessary to resist the EAAN. And perhaps, even, this resistance could occur without any idea of behavior forming a "conceptual constraint" on belief content.
Now I feel like I need to go back and re-read Plantinga to see whether all of this is really fair to him... But it seems initially promising.
sam,
To be more precise, Plantinga does not take a stance on whether there are beliefs on what he calls 'materialism', but he assumes so for the sake of the argument in his paper.
In any case, yes, he claims that it's very probably the content of our beliefs would have no impact on behavior if naturalism is true (if there are no beliefs, that would be trivially true, but that aside), since he claims that materialism or physicalism are "de rigoeur for naturalism", for some reason, and claims that materialism or physicalism (however that's defined) lead to that result (i.e., semantic epiphenomenalism).
He reasons to that conclusion in the way I outlined above (see his paper for more details; I posted a link in my first post in this comments thread), and so for the reasons I gave, I would say that there appears to be no good reason to accept his claims.
Regarding your software analogy, in his paper Plantinga actually claims that on naturalism (+ physicalism or materialism) a belief would be a neurological structure with neurological properties NP and propositional content (my take on this, as I outlined before, is that the person (or, if we consider a part, the brain) believes something, perceives something, desires something, etc.; those are different things that a brain (a structure made of particles) does (i.e., those are processes, which may last for a shorter or longer period), but there is no reason at all to think that what a person (or the brain) believes would have no impact, or to assume that the belief is the structure).
However, Plantinga also implies (see note 4, where he refers to his argument against materialism) that there are serious questions about whether a neurological structure can have semantic content at all (he's just not arguing against it in that particular paper).
While I don't know how he'd react to your example, based on the above (and further details on his position, at least as I understand it), someone holding views similar to Plantinga's might reply as follows (the following is highly speculative, though):
a. In reality, those computers have no beliefs at all, no knowledge, etc. (unless God put souls in them, and only in that case do they have subjective experiences, but there is no good reason to think so).
b. Since they have no beliefs at all, the content of their beliefs is non-existent.
c. The ones and zeros are our way of programming them; what's causally effective is the physical structures we represent by those ones and zeros, and the rest of their physical structure.
d. If, on the other hand, computers have or will have souls, their beliefs will probably be generally since God will make it so.
On the other hand, on naturalism+physicalism, then...our beliefs would not be reliable, and we wouldn't even have a reliable belief that there are such computers; if there are such computers, though, then their beliefs (if they have any) would not be the ones and zeros (that would be how we represent something, probably mistakenly if naturalism is true), but the actual physical structures, with properties like mass, charge, etc.; it's questionable that they could have content at all, but if they did, content would probably be epiphenomenal, so there is no telling what that content might be.
sam,
"I know little neuroscience and even less philosophy of mind, but maybe Plantinga & others are drastically overestimating the consequences of the invisibility of propositional content to natural selection, if what is meant by propositional content is self-aware, conscious semantic/symbolic representation of subjective phenomenological states or sensory data. "
I don't know that he means that. He would probably agree that we have beliefs even if unconscious. But it's not clear to me whether he would agree that, say, dogs have beliefs too. I tend to think not.
What I was trying to say is that if his reasoning to the conclusion that on naturalism+physicalism belief content would have no effect because only the NP properties would have such effect on behavior, then also subjective experience would be epiphenomenal, desire content, intent, perception, etc. (not necessarily involving self-awareness) would have no effect on behavior and would be invisible to evolution.
But if so, that would almost certainly lead to random streams of consciousness if there is consciousness at all, refuting naturalism.
Regarding Plantinga's view on evolution (or rather, what he believes a hypothesis of unguided evolution holds, not what he believes actually happens, which involves God) looks mistaken on many levels, but it's difficult to pinpoint what it is exactly that he believes, but he believes that belief content would be invisible to evolution.
"This isn’t to argue that higher order cognitive structures can’t calculate if, when or how basic instincts should be initiated, but I don’t think that the invisibility of conscious thought to natural selection, if true, would have the slightest effect on the vast history of evolution on this planet, and thus is irrelevant to naturalism. "
I'm not sure what you mean by "conscious thought", but if his reasoning were correct, it seems that not only conscious thought but much more would have no impact, and then it seems we should expect no coherent minds.
Michael,
You're welcome, and thanks for your ideas as well.
I'm not sure I gave you the right impression (I posted a link where you can find his paper in my first post in this thread). Plantinga makes a quick assertion that naturalism requires materialism and that that leads to epiphenomenalism, but then he assesses possible ways out.
So, it seems to me that places a burden on the naturalist to try to resist reductionism about content (CE), so he does give some arguments, but still, I don't see why there is a burden to present any theory of mental content, consciousness, etc. (by the way, it's not as if soul believers propose a theory of interaction between souls and particles, but in any case, saying that we haven't resolve some problems and it might take centuries or more is perfectly reasonable. Science takes time, and any philosophical theory will plausibly require lots of science), or why such theory would have to be what he calls 'materialism'.
That said, I was just outlining my view; the argument against what he calls non-reductive materialism may require more attention if one wants to get into the details.
P.S: Happy New Year to you too; sorry I forgot to post that before. :(
Angra,
Thanks for those comments. As I admit, this isn’t my field & am unfamiliar with strict definitions of terms. Add to that you’re having to interpret Plantinga’s position for me. That’s more work than I can ask of you, and I’ll just have to read the article myself.
Much of my confusion is what Plantinga means by “belief”, which by what you’re saying doesn’t necessarily entail self-awareness or any form of consciousness.
If that’s true, then natural selection still has purchase on which to operate. The neural structures (like a CPU) operate and fire in time (like 1s & 0s being read in sequence in a Turing machine) and generate behaviors that are adaptive or maladaptive to the environment. The neural & organismal behavior _is_ the content upon which natural selection is operating.
The organism’s ability to be aware of the subjective experience of cogitation or its ability to mentally represent sensory data or experience and be able to translate this into some symbolic or semantic fashion (which was what I understood by sematic ephiphenomenalism) is causally irrelevant to the long history of evolution.
So, in that sense I agree with Plantinga regarding SE. I just don’t think it has any consequence on natural evolution. He wants to find a ghost in the machine, some “belief stuff” inside of neural activity. You can take a runner and remove parts of his body until the process of running becomes impossible. I think Plantinga would argue that at this point the “running stuff” then leaves the body and lives in some Platonic realm until it can find another running-able body to inhabit. Very unparsimonious.
“But it's not clear to me whether he would agree that, say, dogs have beliefs too. I tend to think not.”
There’s a YouTube video of a sleeping dog chasing something in his dream until he wakes up, gets on all fours, and subsequently slams his body full tilt into a wall. I can’t stop laughing at it. That dog sure seems to have beliefs, and it sure seems like he had a false belief, and that false belief led to maladaptive behavior. If his brain caused him to misrepresent reality too much, he would be selected out of the gene pool. So Plantinga’s god wants 25% of our beliefs to be false under theistic evolution? Why? Does it enjoy watching YouTube videos too? Given the Hebrew bible, I suspect Plantinga’s god enjoys much worse.
sam, regarding the word 'belief', I think Plantinga is using 'belief' in the colloquial, intuitive folk-psychology sense of the word, so he means what we mean. He might have a particular theory of what 'belief' means, but that doesn't determine the meaning.
I do not think belief requires self-awareness; it does not require consciousness at every moment; it's more debatable whether it requires any consciousness at all; maybe not, or maybe there is more than one folk sense of 'belief'. My very tentative guess is that Plantinga might actually require consciousness at some point, while recognizing that an unconscious person still has beliefs.
By the way, I do agree that dogs have beliefs; I was very tentatively speculating about what Plantinga's position might be. But it was just a guess. Maybe he thinks dogs have beliefs.
You say: "If that’s true, then natural selection still has purchase on which to operate. The neural structures (like a CPU) operate and fire in time (like 1s & 0s being read in sequence in a Turing machine) and generate behaviors that are adaptive or maladaptive to the environment. The neural & organismal behavior _is_ the content upon which natural selection is operating."
But Plantinga denies that that is the content. On naturalism+physicalism, the neural structures have semantic content, according to Plantinga, but aren't the semantic content.
Regarding your point about causal irrelevance, I'm not sure I get your point.
Plantinga's reasoning would seem to lead to the conclusion that belief isn't the only problem, but that also perception, intent, belief, desire, etc., and the ability to acquire them, would play no causal role that selection can operate on. But if so, we would probably have a random stream of consciousness, not coherent minds.
'Maybe he thinks dogs have beliefs.'
Really?
According to Plantinga's 'argument', this means dogs brains are designed by his god to produce reliable cognitive faculties, as natural selection just would not be able to produce beliefs in dogs. (Plantinga, passim)
So if god designed dogs to have reliable cognitive faculties, why aren't dogs as intelligent as we are?
Perhaps their god-designed reliable cognitive faculties are more affected by sin than ours are?
“But Plantinga denies that that is the content. On naturalism+physicalism, the neural structures have semantic content, according to Plantinga, but aren't the semantic content.”
This may be the fundamental disagreement between Plantinga’s & my position. An athlete engaged in a marathon doesn’t _have_ running inside him, he _is_ running. “Running” is a verb or a gerund which describes a temporal sequence of events. A methodological naturalist like a training coach doesn’t posit the existence of “soul stuff” to explain the phenomenon of running, because this hypothetical stuff doesn’t seem to _do_ anything. The machine works well without it.
“Regarding your point about causal irrelevance, I'm not sure I get your point.”
If Plantinga is suggesting that a purely material chain of causal events cannot account for naturally selected, properly functioning cognitive faculties, then I disagree even if semantic epiphenomenalism (if I understand what that is) is true.
Take, for example, patients suffering from blindsight. They have no conscious experience of sight due to a lesion in the neural pathways connecting the thalamus to the visual cortex. You can point a stretched rubberband to their face and they will flinch. If you ask them why they flinch, they have no idea, no propositional knowledge, no conscious beliefs, intentions or desires, that would explain their own behavior to themselves. They flinch because the neural pathways connecting the optic nerve to the amygdala, which provides emotional valence, are intact.
Blind instinct controls behavior. Natural selection operates on the neural pathways which control instinct. Higher order processing which generate beliefs and conscious interpretations of sensory perceptions comes later. Even if these higher order processes are invisible to natural selection directly, they are causally determined by these lower order instincts.
This doesn’t mean that our beliefs or higher order interpretations don’t control our behavior. Take, for example, patients suffering from psychic blindness. These patients have a lesion in the pathways to the amygdala, but not the pathways leading to the visual cortex. You can ask this patient to give detailed visual description of his wife of 40 years, and you can ask him to give detailed visual description of a particular woman in a crowded room. All his propositional knowledge of visual sensory data is intact. Yet he cannot equate the woman in the crowd with his wife because he cannot emotionally “identify” her. The moment she speaks, he identifies her because the auditory pathways to the amygdala and temporal lobes are intact.
Or take patients suffering from anosognosia. They come into the doctor’s office asking to have their arm amputated because they are convinced that it is an “impostor”. They don’t emotionally identify with it, even though all their propositional knowledge is intact (they know it looks just like their arm, they know it’s attached to their body, etc.).
We can lesion half the brain in chimps in these same areas. If we starve the chimps and place food in the visual field who’s emotional valence has been lesioned, they do not react to the food as food. If we place the food in the unlesioned visual field as a control, they respond appropriately. The chimp’s visual field & processing (and presumably propositional knowledge) are intact, and yet without the emotional instinct to eat, they don’t initiate properly functioning, naturally selected behavior.
You can electrically stimulate the motor cortex of a dead frog, initiate neural depolarization, releasing calcium stores within striated muscle, and cause flexation of the frog’s legs. If your interpretation of Plantinga is correct, I get the sense that he would argue that this causal chain of physical events must have semantic content, some ghost in the machine. The physical phenomena _are_ the information which induces this causal chain of events. Outside of this, I don’t know what he means by semantic content.
Steven Carr,
I was expressing doubt about Plantinga's position, not making a claim about them.
Also, I guess he might say that God did not choose to make dogs as intelligent as we are. I don't see this as a particular difficulty for his position.
Just to clarify a couple of my points, the following is a somewhat more elaborate explanation of my take on some of the reasons why Plantinga's argument in his latest incarnation fails:
Among other issues, Plantinga argues that on naturalism non-reductive materialism (N+NRM), a view according to which (on his definition) mental properties emerge and strongly supervene on NP properties, his EAAN succeeds.
In particular, Plantinga argues that that whether a mental property has true content would have nothing to do with whether the NP properties are adaptive, since if the belief were false, then the NP property would be just as adaptive. With Plantinga's criterion, then for that matter one could say that if the NP property were adaptive, then whatever mental property (perceptions, desires, intent, etc.) supervene on them would not impinge on their adaptability, so Plantinga might as well forget about beliefs in particular and just argue that on N+NRM we wouldn't get coherent minds, but a completely random stream of consciousness, with no connection between intent, belief, perceptions, etc.
However, in any event, we may consider the following points:
a. It makes perfect sense to say that person A felt outraged about the injustice that happened to person B because A is a good person. That moral properties supervene on non-moral ones is no objection to that.
b. At least most extant dinosaur species alive at the time of the K-T event became extinct because of an asteroid impact, or asteroid impact + volcanic eruptions, etc.. The fact that we can put all of that in terms of particles, or that the properties of the asteroid, the volcanoes, etc., supervene on the properties of some particles does not mean that the asteroid or the volcanoes were causally effete, or that the explanation is no good.
c. Plantinga himself recognizes that neurophysiological properties (NP properties) are adaptive and causally effective. Yet, NP properties too strongly supervene on some properties of particles.
So, similarly, if mental properties and faculties strongly supervene on NP properties, mental properties still may play causal and explanatory roles, just as NP properties may play those roles even though they strongly supervene on some of the properties of particles.
Also, similarly, if mental properties and faculties strongly supervene on NP properties, they may still be selected for or against.
In particular, that applies to beliefs.
For instance, it still makes perfect sense to say that, say, Koko the gorilla walked 10 kilometers because she was hungry and believed that she would find bananas. And of course, an animal that can feed on bananas will be more likely to survive, all other things equal, if she wants bananas and knows how to get them, so the tendency to have some kind of beliefs and desires can be selected for.
But if our mental faculties can be subject to selective pressure, reliable faculties are plausibly usually better for reproductive success than unreliable faculties, all other things equal.
Now, Plantinga might reply to that claiming that, perhaps, having a false belief about the bananas, combined with other desires (i.e., believing that there are rocks, not bananas, but wanting to eat rocks) would be adaptive too. However, the chances of such capricious mental faculties becoming adaptive seems pretty unlikely; in any case, that would be a completely different argument, since the supervenience issue no longer plays a role, and Plantinga would have to fall back to something like part of his original argument.
sam,
If I get your point about running that right, that might be something similar to my view: I would say from the perspective of a naturalist, one can say that what is adaptive is a brain or generally organs that do something, like perceiving some object, feeling in a certain way, desiring something, believing this or that, and so on. It's also a brain that has a certain mass, weight, etc., but there is no need to take a stance on some kind of theory about the relation between mental properties and NP properties.
Regarding blindsight, I don't know that they have no phenomenology associated with the stretched rubberband, An alternative interpretation is that part of their brain does have such phenomenology, but it's not the one that talks to the researchers.
I don't think (for instance) that it's (causally) possible to fully separate conscious experience from usual behavior in humans (even if the interpretation of the experiment you mention is correct and it's partially possible to do so); else, experience would be epiphenomenal, which seems clearly not the case.
sam: "Blind instinct controls behavior. Natural selection operates on the neural pathways which control instinct. Higher order processing which generate beliefs and conscious interpretations of sensory perceptions comes later. Even if these higher order processes are invisible to natural selection directly, they are causally determined by these lower order instincts."
I'm not sure I get your point here.
I don't think causation at a lower level precludes causation at a higher level, and also the causal impact of minds is a very good explanation of behavior (e.g., consider the human behavior of using a condom (deliberately against reproductive success in many cases), or – an example from a poster nicknamed "Bomb#20"; he used to make a point about zombies – the fact that otters masturbate). Talk of selection is also explanation of a process at a higher level than, say, particles, so I'm not sure in which sense higher order processes might be invisible to selection if 'lower order instincts' aren't.
sam: "This doesn’t mean that our beliefs or higher order interpretations don’t control our behavior."
Yes, I agree that they're causally efficacious. But then, I do not see how they would be invisible to selection (more precisely, having some reliably cognitive higher order faculties may plausibly be selected for, and in any case generally our tendency to form higher order beliefs in this or that manner would not be invisible).
sam "You can electrically stimulate the motor cortex of a dead frog, initiate neural depolarization, releasing calcium stores within striated muscle, and cause flexation of the frog’s legs. If your interpretation of Plantinga is correct, I get the sense that he would argue that this causal chain of physical events must have semantic content, some ghost in the machine. The physical phenomena _are_ the information which induces this causal chain of events. Outside of this, I don’t know what he means by semantic content."
I don't know what he would say. I think he'd say that there is a ghost in the machine (i.e., a soul) if there is subjective experience.
As for 'semantic content', in the case of beliefs, he specifically talks about propositional content, so he's talking about propositions; but his argumentation, if correct, would lead to the conclusion that perceptions, desires, etc., are causally effete as well.
'Also, I guess he might say that God did not choose to make dogs as intelligent as we are. I don't see this as a particular difficulty for his position.'
Of course it is!
Why does Plantinga's god deprive us of the company of a truly intelligent species?
And how did dogs develop ANY sort of intelligence, bearing in mind Plantinga's denial that any intelligence can evolve by itself?
And why did Plantinga's god select our species for this 'guided evolution'?
Did we win God's lottery?
Did his god just choose a species at random, or was there something about Homo sapiens which made their brains particularly suitable for generating true beliefs?
But if we were selected for 'guided evolution' because we were the most suitable species for evolution to work on....
Of course, any problems naturalism has are tiny flecks compared to the fact that we can all safely ignore anything Plantinga says.
For on his worldview, his reasoning and senses are being constantly attacked by demons.
So we can ignore what he says.
Until Plantinga proves that his 'arguments' are not the product of a malfunctioning demon possessed brain, there is absolutely no reason to suppose his brain is working according to God's will.
Hi Angra,
"So, similarly, if mental properties and faculties strongly supervene on NP properties, mental properties still may play causal and explanatory roles, just as NP properties may play those roles even though they strongly supervene on some of the properties of particles."
Quite. But Plantinga seems to see the relationship between beliefs and NP properties as arbitrary (under NRM), so a particular NP property (or set of properties) could equally well correspond to any belief at all. Let's say some raindrops fall on your head, causing NP properties which in turn cause you to put up your umbrella. Plantinga seems to think that (under NRM) those NP properties could just as well correspond to the belief that it's not raining (or that the world is flat) as to the belief that it's raining!
In the section on functionalism he insists that there are no constraints on the belief. But no reasonable person would call this a belief that it's not raining, or a belief that the Earth is flat. In Plantinga's own example, no reasonable person would say that the frog has a belief that 2+1=3. The facts which incline us to make such judgements provide the relevant constraints.
As you suggest, this isn't fundamentally different from the supervenience of higher-level physical properties on lower-level ones. Plantinga seems to be complaining that we haven't got a formula for mapping NP properties onto particular beliefs. But we don't need no steenkin' formula. There are plenty of physical properties for which we can give no such formula, and that doesn't call naturalism into doubt. What's the formula for deriving the species of an organism or the given name of a human from fundamental physical properties?
I feel part of the problem here is our tendency to draw a dichotomy between the physical and the mental. It helps if we realise that all the entities in our models are abstractions to some degree. Mental entities (like beliefs) are just another type of abstraction, albeit at a particularly high level of abstraction.
Hi Angra,
“,but there is no need to take a stance on some kind of theory about the relation between mental properties and NP properties.”
Yes, I don’t think we disagree. Perceiving, feeling, desiring, believing are computational processes produced by orderly neural firing. If NP properties include all physical brain activity, then I’m not sure what ‘mental properties’ are. Maybe ‘NP properties’ are nouns; they are what exist. ‘Mental properties’ are adjectives or gerunds which we use to describe the activities of the nouns. They ‘exist’ in the sense that they are complex operations in space _and_ time.
“Regarding blindsight, I don't know that they have no phenomenology associated with the stretched rubberband…”
Yes, I tried to describe the phenomenology. The causal chain of events begins with photons of a certain wavelength striking the rods & cones of the retina. The depolarized optic nerve sends a signal which eventually reaches the amygdala, which induces a fear response: the hypothalamus sends a hormone to the adrenal cortex, which dumps a bolus of norepinephrine and cortisol into the bloodstream, the heart rate increases, the pupils dilate, sweating and piloerection increases, all due to simple ligand/receptor signal transduction.
The patient is subjectively experiencing the mental process of fear. All of this occurs, contra Plantinga, in the absence of “semantic content”. There is no conscious, self-aware perception of a threat, there is no propositional content, there is no belief or desire with regard to the source of the stimulus. The patient knows he’s afraid, but he has no idea why.
I would argue that for most of evolution (and Plantinga’s theistic evolution addresses _all_ evolution), organisms including animals were shaped by natural selection in the complete absence of semantic content and propositional knowledge. The sensory organs & the responses they induce were increasingly improved to more closely approximate reality. Natural selection hones this instinct, so that successive generations respond to their environment in an increasingly adaptive fashion (of course, environments change, though).
It’s a complex, causal chain of dominos at which no point do the dominos hold true or false beliefs about the previous or successive domino. That’s why I object to Plantinga’s cartoonishly false examples of animals holding two false “beliefs” that together become adaptive, but from what I gather from your comments, that’s an older version of his EAAN.
“I'm not sure I get your point here. Talk of selection is also explanation of a process at a higher level than, say, particles, so I'm not sure in which sense higher order processes might be invisible to selection if 'lower order instincts' aren't.”
I am in full agreement with you. Since I don’t know what Plantinga means when he argues that they are invisible to selection, I’ll have to read the paper.
“I think he'd say that there is a ghost in the machine (i.e., a soul) if there is subjective experience.”
Yes, and I’d argue that our subjective experience is causally determined by NP properties. NP properties are necessary _and_ sufficient (more difficult to prove) to create them. The examples of psychic blindness & anosognosia in humans and experimental animals indicate that we can specifically lesion small neural pathways and eliminate subjective experience without destroying sensation, perception, propositional knowledge, and semantic content. Antonio Damasio has also done a lot of work with stroke victims and how loss of affect impairs one’s ability to synthesize propositional knowledge. Plantinga would then probably argue that those lesions severed the connection between the soul stuff and the body, as the pineal gland with Descarte’s soul stuff.
Hi Richard,
I agree that Plantinga seems to believe that the relation between beliefs (and similarly, one should say perception, desires, etc.) and NP properties is arbitrary.
I also agree with your comments about the unreasonableness of Plantinga's stance on their being no constraints on belief, but I just wanted to debunk the argument from supervenience, so that the discussion could be focused on what kind of minds (including reliability of belief systems) would be more likely to be favored by selection, without the contamination from the supervenience argument and talk about NP properties.
In a nutshell:
Under the assumption that NP properties strongly supervene on properties of particles, that would not prevent NP properties from playing causal and explanatory roles, including a role in natural selection (i.e., they're still subject to selection, etc.); Plantinga seems to accept that.
Moreover, it would be legitimate to speculate about what kind of NP properties are likely to be adaptive based partly on what we know about the effects of NP properties (if we know them), even without considering the properties of basic particles on which NP properties supervene. In fact, we don't even need to know anything about the connection between properties of particles and NP properties.
Similarly, it is equally legitimate to assess what kind of minds would likely be favored by selection taking into consideration the effects such minds would have, without having to consider either the NP properties on which they supervene, or the properties of particles on which they supervene, assuming strong supervenience.
Now, often we know more about the effects of having some kind of mind (desires, beliefs, etc.) than of having some NP properties, so making an assessment in terms of minds is preferable in at least many cases, and in any event legitimate.
The fact that we do not know what precise connections exist between NP properties and mental properties is no objection to that, and claiming that the connections are arbitrary in a way that would make any connections to truth unlikely is not warranted on the basis of supervenience.
Moreover, it's almost certainly false. An example might help here: let's say that there is an ancestor of humans and chimps, say 7 million years ago, who already has mostly reliable cognitive faculties (however they got them), even if their beliefs are simpler than ours, they're less intelligent, etc.
In that case, clearly some modifications to their cognitive system that would allow them to increase the number and rate of true beliefs will, all other things equal, be favored by selection over one that gives them more false beliefs; note that we can make that assessment without having to deal with NP properties at all.
But that also shows that Plantinga's attempt to deny legitimacy to assessing what kind of minds would be favored by selection using the effects those minds are likely to have on behavior as a guide, fails.
Granted, Plantinga might still say that, for instance, a desire to cuddle a tiger plus the belief that running towards the tiger works just as well as the belief that one has to escape from the tiger, deny that our ancestor had a mostly reliable cognitive system and move the discussion to earlier ancestors, etc. However, those arguments would be entirely different from the argument from supervenience; in fact, supervenience no longer plays a role.
So, Plantinga's argument against reliability of our faculties under N+NRM fails. He may give other arguments of course, but that one is defeated.
sam,
Thanks for the clarification.
I'm not sure I get your point about things occurring contra Plantinga's claim, in the case of blindsight. He does not seem to claim that there would be beliefs regarding the source of the stimuli.
Hi Angra,
“He does not seem to claim that there would be beliefs regarding the source of the stimuli.”
I was operating on your interpretation of Plantinga’s definition of “semantic content”. You said, “As for 'semantic content', in the case of beliefs, he specifically talks about propositional content, so he's talking about propositions.”
My point was that our brains can sense, perceive & initiate reflexive behavioral responses all in the absence of propositional knowledge. Lesions that cause blindsight uncover this. Instead of “There is a threat (and I know there is a threat)”, there is only stimulus and response. Natural selection operates on these processes. A vine doesn’t hold true or false beliefs about the direction of sunlight. It either senses & migrates toward the direction of sunlight better or worse than its competitors. Those individuals who are worse reproduce less often.
“But that also shows that Plantinga's attempt to deny legitimacy to assessing what kind of minds would be favored by selection using the effects those minds are likely to have on behavior as a guide, fails.”
Agreed.
“Granted, Plantinga might still say that, for instance, a desire to cuddle a tiger plus the belief that running towards the tiger works just as well as the belief that one has to escape from the tiger…”
In these examples he’s given, these hypothetical individuals would be _less_ fit overall, even if these two mutations in perception occurred simultaneously, so the argument fails. Plantinga doesn’t appear to understand either how the brain works or how evolution works in these examples.
hi sam,
"My point was that our brains can sense, perceive & initiate reflexive behavioral responses all in the absence of propositional knowledge."
Okay; my point was that he didn't seem to claim that specific beliefs about the source of the stimuli in question were required in order to be afraid of something, so I'm not sure how that contradicts Plantinga's claims.
"Lesions that cause blindsight uncover this. Instead of “There is a threat (and I know there is a threat)”, there is only stimulus and response. Natural selection operates on these processes. A vine doesn’t hold true or false beliefs about the direction of sunlight. It either senses & migrates toward the direction of sunlight better or worse than its competitors. Those individuals who are worse reproduce less often."
Yes, vines have no beliefs as far as I can tell. But if a mutation makes a chimpanzee (or, for that matter, a hyena) more likely to acquire false beliefs about where to get food, then that mutation will be selected against all other things equal, because chimpanzees with that mutation will tend to have false beliefs about where to get food more often, and as a result in hunger more often, which will result in less reproductive success.
Hi Angra,
“My point was that he didn't seem to claim that specific beliefs about the source of the stimuli in question were required in order to be afraid of something, so I'm not sure how that contradicts Plantinga's claims.”
Yes, I understand your point. The confusion lies in the definition of Plantinga’s use of “belief”. Based on his examples of frogs “forming beliefs” about flies or our ancestors “forming beliefs” about tigers, I had the impression that Plantinga was speaking of propositional knowledge, a higher order form of cognition (i.e. not only do I sense an object, but I have self-aware, relational knowledge _of_ and _to_ that object, and even orders of intentionality above that –- i.e. I know that I know that an object exists in front of me.)
Your interpretation of Plantinga’s definition of ‘semantic content’ further validates that usage. “As for 'semantic content', in the case of beliefs, he specifically talks about propositional content, so he's talking about propositions.”
My point was that organisms can engage in cause and effect, stimulus/response, adaptive behaviors (which are naturally selected) all in the absence of anything that can (at least colloquially) be referred to as “knowledge”. This includes any what, where, when, why, how question about the stimulus. Anosognosia patients not only suffer from a neural defect and/or paralysis, _they don’t even know they suffer from paralysis_. When you ask them about their paralysis, they construct elaborate narratives rationalizing away their lack of adaptive behavior.
An older example from William James would be an earthshaking thunderclap. If you’ve experienced one, you know that there is a fraction of a second during which you are in the grips of heart-stopping, paralyzing fear _and you haven’t the slightest idea why you are in that state_. We know the neural pathways that are responsible for this. Your body and brain exhibit adaptive behavior to a stimulus eons (in neurological time) before ‘higher’ brain functions can begin to process, perceive & interpret the raw sensory data.
“But if a mutation makes a chimpanzee (or, for that matter, a hyena) more likely to acquire false beliefs about where to get food, then that mutation will be selected against all other things equal, because chimpanzees with that mutation will tend to have false beliefs about where to get food more often, and as a result in hunger more often, which will result in less reproductive success.”
Yes, that’s exactly right. And Plantinga then takes your “all other things equal”, and argues that 2 mutations that behaviorally cancel each other out will still lead to adaptive behavior. Plantinga appears to be completely unaware of the polygenic effects of most phenotypes and the pleotropic effects of most genes. He doesn’t appear to be aware that all “belief-forming” species are diploid, or above, organisms with compensatory gene expression.
Frogs who preyed on poisonous Monarch butterflies died. Those who became better able to detect and avoid Monarchs lived and mated. Plantinga argues that, within a single generation, a predator might develop a yearning for Monarchs, but also develop an instinct to respond to feelings of yearning with evasive maneuvers. Set aside the absurdity of two single mutations causing such massive effects on two highly polygenic phenotypes. The problem is that organisms that develop an instinct to respond to feelings of yearning with evasive maneuvers will not mate or eat _anything_. They get selected out of the gene pool. These examples he gives are ignorant of both neuroscience and evolutionary biology.
Hi Angra,
I think Plantinga's argument has morphed from the original evolutionary argument into a more general attack on naturalist accounts of belief. I'm still looking for the best way to deflate the concerns that he raises on that score. I'm not limiting my response to the supervenience argument, because I think his attack is more general.
At the root of Plantinga's attack is the claim that behaviour is caused by NP structures, not by beliefs. This is like claiming that the fluttering of a flag is caused by air atoms, and not by the wind. In both cases the two go together. We just have two different ways of modelling the same processes, at different levels of abstraction.
Plantinga takes a traditional non-naturalized approach to philosophy, even when he needs to put himself in the naturalist's shoes for the sake of argument. Consequently he is unable to understand and do justice to the most naturalized accounts of belief. In particular, he tries to locate belief "content" in particular NP structures, when the propositions we attach to beliefs are better seen as entities in our higher-level models.
To take my earlier example, let's say some raindrops fall on your head, causing you to put up your umbrella. The reason why I sensibly attribute to you a belief that it's raining--and not some other belief--is because that belief makes for the best causal model. It allows me to explain and predict your behaviour. What makes this a belief that it's raining is the web of causal relationships: what caused it, and what sort of behaviour it causes. It is these higher-level considerations that determine the most appropriate proposition to associate with the belief, not NP-level considerations. That's why it's a mistake to look for a mapping from NP structures to beliefs. We don't need any formula, law or supernatural entity to map NP structures onto beliefs. NP structures are just not relevant at the level of model where beliefs and "content" appear.
sam,
I don't know that Plantinga's usage of 'belief' (which, I think, is meant to match common usage) requires self-awareness. I'm not sure how propositional content would require self-awareness.
But that aside, as far as I can tell, Plantinga didn't seem to say that always there is knowledge that an object is in front of a person, even in cases of illness. In the case of blindsight, for example, it's clear that the person has less knowledge than a person who has no illness and can see the object and acquire a lot more information. But I don't see the contradiction between Plantinga's claim and the results of that pathological case.
Maybe you're thinking about some specific claim by Plantinga in another paper?
If so, please let me know.
"My point was that organisms can engage in cause and effect, stimulus/response, adaptive behaviors (which are naturally selected) all in the absence of anything that can (at least colloquially) be referred to as “knowledge”. This includes any what, where, when, why, how question about the stimulus. Anosognosia patients not only suffer from a neural defect and/or paralysis, _they don’t even know they suffer from paralysis_. When you ask them about their paralysis, they construct elaborate narratives rationalizing away their lack of adaptive behavior."
Yes, that's true; there are pathological cases, though cognitive structures favoring reliable belief-acquiring systems are still subject to selective pressures. Also, in the pathological cases, cognitive abilities are diminished, and that would be selected against if it were the result of genetic mutations (e.g., a mutation that resulted in blindsight (for instance) would almost certainly be maladaptive in nearly all cases).
"Yes, that’s exactly right. And Plantinga then takes your “all other things equal”, and argues that 2 mutations that behaviorally cancel each other out will still lead to adaptive behavior. Plantinga appears to be completely unaware of the polygenic effects of most phenotypes and the pleotropic effects of most genes. He doesn’t appear to be aware that all “belief-forming” species are diploid, or above, organisms with compensatory gene expression. "
Yes, and he's apparently ignoring that the mutations in question wouldn't result in a single, specific belief that can be canceled by a single, specific desire. There would be a previous cognitive structures with some tendencies to form desires, beliefs, etc., and genetic changes that reduce reliability of belief formation would not be compensated by a change in desire formation that can't predict in advance what beliefs will go wrong and need compensating.
In short, it's a mess.
"Frogs who preyed on poisonous Monarch butterflies died. Those who became better able to detect and avoid Monarchs lived and mated. Plantinga argues that, within a single generation, a predator might develop a yearning for Monarchs, but also develop an instinct to respond to feelings of yearning with evasive maneuvers. Set aside the absurdity of two single mutations causing such massive effects on two highly polygenic phenotypes. The problem is that organisms that develop an instinct to respond to feelings of yearning with evasive maneuvers will not mate or eat _anything_. They get selected out of the gene pool. These examples he gives are ignorant of both neuroscience and evolutionary biology. "
Yes, that's an excellent example.
Plantinga's argument would require mutations that respond to only that kind of yearning with evasion, but not the others, etc.; in short, it would be an incredibly complex set of instructions resulted from those mutations, and still would be unable to cope with new cases as a normal system would.
“At the root of Plantinga's attack is....better seen as entities in our higher-level models.”
Yes, that is spot-on.
“It allows me to explain and predict your behaviour.”
This predictive power or reliablism gives physical, naturalist, causal models superior value to teleological ones. When you assume that a non-teleological “process” like astrology, prayer or goat entrails-reading is teleological and efficacious, your success rate of predicting future behavior is equivalent to a coin-toss, and no causal mechanism has been reasonably defended. When you assume that a genuinely teleological process like an animal mind is teleological, your success rate of predicting future behavior is higher than chance.
Theistic hypotheses also suffer in that, like all ad hoc explanations, it has no predictive value. All negative or contradictory data are made to fit the hypothesis after the fact. It doesn’t matter whether or not rain follows the rain dance, or whether or not the crops grow following the child sacrifice to the gods. An ad hoc explanation is always available.
“It is these higher-level considerations that determine the most appropriate proposition to associate with the belief, not NP-level considerations. That's why it's a mistake to look for a mapping from NP structures to beliefs.”
And yet, like your analogy of the collective process we call ‘wind’ emerging from the movement of individual gas molecules in time & space, the NP properties are both necessary _and_ sufficient to produce these “higher level considerations”, like Gestalt perceptions. It’s a difference in scale, not kind, as Plantinga seems to indicate.
We can mathematically model the flight patterns of flocks of birds. No individual bird possesses a plan or goal which determines the shape in which the whole flock takes. Each bird possesses and follows a very limited set of instinctive “rules”, such as proximity to his neighbor. The collective response emerges out of individuals with no overarching goal. There are real, physical, unique, causal consequences that the whole can have on other objects, such as when a commercial airliner passes through a flock of, or just one, seagull. One molecule of oxytocin does not induce nurturing behaviors in mammals, but many nanomoles of oxytocin in the correct locations (combined with serotonin & dopamine) do.
Hi Richard,
I was focusing on the issue of supervenience because in the context of my conversation with Michael, we addressed the issue of what burden Plantinga was placing on the naturalist; it seems he places on naturalists the burden of finding some way out of epiphenomenalism, and considers a few possibilities, [mistakenly] concluding that his EAAN still succeeds. One of the potential ways out he considers is NRM, and I was focusing on showing that his argument to the conclusion that N+NRM still supports his EAAN because of supervenience, fails.
I agree that saying that behavior is caused by NP structures and not by beliefs is confused.
I'm not sure I understand your point that what makes something a belief is a web of causal relationships. It sounds to me kind of like functionalism, but I might be misreading. In any case, I do not think that the naturalist needs to have a theory about beliefs. She may simply say that she does not have a theory, and point out that that Plantinga's arguments do nothing to challenge that on naturalism, beliefs are not causally effective.
Hi Angra,
“I don't know that Plantinga's usage of 'belief' (which, I think, is meant to match common usage) requires self-awareness. I'm not sure how propositional content would require self-awareness.”
Maybe I’m being too loose with semantics. Not self-awareness, sorry. If a patient lacks knowledge (propositional content) of the existence of the rubber-band because he’s consciously blind, I don’t see how he can have a “belief” (colloquially defined) about that rubber band, if belief is a higher-order function. The pathological case isn’t used to highlight the pathology, but to uncover what normally happens in the brain. It’s just stimulus-response in the reptilian portion of our brains. The higher order perceptual capacities evolved much later and weren’t around for natural selection to “tinker” with until very late in evolution’s history. I don’t want to belabor the point.
Hi Sam,
On the semantical point, and a small point possibly worth clarifying-- contemporary philosophers customarily distinguish strongly between propositional content and phenomenal/psychological mental states of any kind. There's content (on the one hand) and there's mental states (on the other). Even if some mental states (like belief or knowledge) require propositional content, the thought is that we can still make sense of propositional content as its own, non-psychological, sort of thing. (So, e.g., the standard view is that belief requires propositional content but propositional content doesn't require belief.)
I think this way of thinking and talking is harmless, and it can be useful. But the distinction may be a slightly unnatural and technical one, and it's probably not just transparently obvious.
Anyway, for some reason I thought that might help. Apologies if not.
Hi Michael,
“…the thought is that we can still make sense of propositional content as its own, non-psychological, sort of thing. (So, e.g., the standard view is that belief requires propositional content but propositional content doesn't require belief.)”
Thanks for the input, but I’m still not clear. I should shut up until I look up some definitions. I don’t understand to what extent propositional content can be described as non-psychological (or, independent of neural activity), unless you define propositional content as the physical stimulus prior to impingement on the sensory organs.
That reminds me of the old Buddhist koan of “If a tree falls in an empty forest, will it make a sound?” It seems trivially true to me that, yes, the tree impact will create differential waves of air pressure, but ‘sound’ refers to a psychological perception, and without a tympanic membrane and brain to detect and interpret the raw physical phenomenon, then no, no sound will issue forth.
So, while I get “belief requires propositional content”, the only way I can understand “propositional content doesn’t require belief” is if I understand “propositional content” to mean the spatio-temporally organized firing of a specific subset of neurons with a specific complement of neurotransmitters which collectively encode the received sensory data. This is still what I would describe as psychological activity, but again, these may just be sematic disagreements. I should do more reading.
Sam, maybe you could think of a proposition as an abstract object, in the way that, say, numbers or sets are abstract.
At the risk of going widely off point, my (potentially controversial) view is that the point in philosophical discourse of categories like 'proposition' and 'propositional content' is to have a certain kind of conceptual tool at hand for thinking (somewhat) more clearly about fundamental questions in the philosophy of language and mind. For an easy example, we may want to ask about the in principle possiblerelations between physical and psychological states: could it be identity? could it be emergence? could it be purely functional? could it be dualistic? could the mental be eliminated? Having a somewhat abstract idea of propositional content around makes it easier to formulate and approach these questions. It's hard even to get a grip on these questions unless you have some way of conceiving of content distinctly from psychological or physiological states. And the danger is that, unless we have a clear grip on these questions, we're likely to have some view of these questions that fails to be the product of proper reflection. We'll probably just take for granted one or the other of the many available options.
In other words, I'm inclined to view 'proposition' and 'propositional content' as useful labels for certain parts of a theoretical model whose main point is to allow us to think about some fundamental questions or get to some rough-and-ready characterizations of certain linguistic and mental phenomena. (However, others will want to go farther than this.) Threated in this way, I think the idea makes sense and is really pretty harmless.
Thanks, Michael. This gives me something to chew on.
Hi Angra,
Yes, I am giving a kind of functionalist explanation. I'm certainly not demanding that you give any such specific explanation. But Plantinga has raised the question of how beliefs get to have "content". And I think our response to him will be more persuasive if we give a brief answer to that question.
You and I have both argued against Plantinga on the basis of analogy with physical properties. It's a good argument, but it depends on the listener accepting that there is no relevant disanalogy. You may say that the onus is on Plantinga to demonstrate a disanalogy, and he has failed to do so. But the reality is that he is appealing to a very common and deeply-felt intuition that mental "content" is something special, with no analogy in the physical world. It's that sort of intuition that leads so many philosophers--even naturalists--to worry about "intentionality". Anything we can do to deflate that intuition will weaken Plantinga's appeal.
Perhaps it's over-optimistic to think that many people (if any) will accept my explanation of how beliefs get to have content. But I feel that giving an explanation puts the ball more decisively back in Plantinga's court. Moreover, Plantinga claims already to have addressed the functionalist explanation, and I want to show that he has addressed only a straw man.
I think you're right that in this paper Plantinga places the onus on the naturalist to find a way out of epiphenomenalism. I suspect he feels entitled to do so because he has previously argued at some length that naturalism requires epiphenomenalism. I read that argument some time ago and can barely remember it now (or remember where I found it). I think the essence of it was that some "law" is required to map NP states onto belief content, and naturalism lacks the resources for the existence of such a law. My giving an explanation is partly motivated by the desire to respond to that argument, but I can't remember it well enough to respond directly.
Hi Richard,
“I think the essence of it was that some "law" is required to map NP states onto belief content, and naturalism lacks the resources for the existence of such a law.”
If I assume that Plantinga has found a gap in naturalism to fit his god in, can you recall where Plantinga identifies this gap where naturalism lacks resources (or give me the reference to the paper?)
If you take the example of Parkinson’s disease, one can perform gain-of-function and (serendipitously) loss-of-function experiments to elucidate the physical causal chain of events that lead to mental content. We know that patients who naturally develop the disease lose dopamine-expressing neurons specifically within the substantia nigra. We know that patients who unintentionally ingest MPTP, a toxin that specifically destroys dopamine-expressing substantia nigra neurons, reduces motor coordination identically to the symptoms of PD. If we administer L-DOPA (which increases dopamine signaling within substantia nigra neurons) to either PD or MPTP patients, motor coordination improves.
If Plantinga is arguing that “soulstuff” glue must bridge the gap between NP properties and a patient’s first-person, conscious, self-aware & intentional control of motor coordination, where is the gap in this physical, causal chain of events in which the Cartesian glue must lie (setting aside the nonfunctionality of noncorporeal glue on corporeal substrates)?
We have a similar natural, causal story with opiates. Opiates fairly reproducibly induce the experiential phenomenon of euphoria. We know the receptor subtypes, the nociceptive fiber subtypes & the brain regions that are necessary and sufficient to create this mental content. Would it be consistent with Plantinga’s position to argue that his god (or opiate angels) are required to map this experiential phenomenon or belief content onto the NP states?
Hi Richard,
In the argument I criticized, Plantinga argued on the basis of supervenience (rather than on the basis of intuitions about mental content being 'special') that that belief content – and one could extend his reasoning to perceptions, desires, etc. - were not subject to the pressure of natural selection, which operated on NP properties on naturalism + non-reductive materialism.
More precisely, he implicitly or explicitly was rejecting the legitimacy of assessing what kind of mind would plausible be favored by natural selection based at least partly on the effects of said mind, and maintained instead that the focus should be on NP properties, and then any mind might go with that.
My argument used the case of properties of particles as an example in order to show that supervenience, even strong supervenience, does not have the consequences Plantinga was attributing to it.
On the issue of offering a specific explanation, I do not have one, but for the reasons I mentioned, I don't think that I have a burden to offer one.
Regarding the persuasiveness of the argument, I'm not sure what your intended audience is (e.g., it won't be persuasive to Plantinga, no matter what), but while I agree that briefly offering a plausible account might help. A difficulty is how plausible functionalism is. Do you have any particular version in mind?
As for Plantinga's argument to epiphenomenalism under naturalism, I don't know which particular argument you have in mind; I've read some arguments to that conclusion, but not good ones. In any case, I would argue that (purely for example) N+NRM resists the arguments he provides in his latest paper.
Hi Angra,
"A difficulty is how plausible functionalism is. Do you have any particular version in mind?"
I'm not familiar with specific versions, except for a slight acquaintance with Dennett's Intentional Stance (which seems broadly similar to my view). Anyway, I don't want to get too specific. I think I've said enough for the purpose of responding to Plantinga, though I'm still thinking about how to express those points more clearly.
Platinga’s argument seems to forget that evolution includes other species other than humanity. It’s only humans who appear to have beliefs, whereas other species have ‘instincts’ to guide their behaviour. The fundamental difference is that we evolved rational thought and use reason to justify our beliefs; even so-called irrational beliefs are rationalised by those who hold them.
The success of other species tells us that ‘beliefs’ are not necessary to evolution, but I would argue that beliefs are a byproduct of rational thought, replacing instinct, which is what has made humans spectacularly evolutionary successful. Why religious beliefs have persisted and been evolutionary successful is another argument. I think religion fundamentally arises from our ability to imagine life beyond the grave – something I suspect other species would not be able to do.
Regards, Paul.
Hi, Richard
Okay, thanks for the reply.
Hi, Paul,
I don't think that only humans have beliefs.
For instance, if you do everything you usually do before you give a dog food, it seems to me that the dog will believe that you're going to give him food, and will be surprised if you don't.
It's true that beliefs are not required for evolution, since bacteria and plants (for instance) evolve without beliefs. But cognitive structures that facilitate acquiring certain beliefs (like true ones about a certain domain) may still be favored by selection, as other traits may.
Hi Angra,
Yes, I think 'beliefs' have evolved from instincts to deductions, if you like. The dog, in the example you give, makes a deduction based on previous experience, or it could just be a Pavlovian response. But I think there's good reason to believe that some animals can make deductions - use logic - like when they use 'tools' to access food.
Humans have elevated beliefs into entire cultural systems, which is unique, and has had evolutionary advantage I would suggest.
Regards, Paul.
Hi Paul and Angra,
I think there's an understandable reluctance to associate beliefs with animals, because we characterise beliefs in terms of propositions (e.g. a belief that p) and animals don't have access to propositional language.
Modelling people in terms of beliefs (with associated propositions) is effective for predicting and explaining their behaviour. I think that's why we originally started doing it. It probably seemed natural to associate propositions with beliefs, because people tend to express their beliefs as propositions. But the same models work very well even when people don't express their beliefs as propositions, even to themselves. And I think that's why we apply them more broadly, without necessarily committing ourselves to the idea that a person must have expressed the proposition in question.
Suppose someone has seen and remembered pictures of the round Earth and has planned round-the-world trips. We happily attribute to him the belief that the Earth is round without worrying whether he has ever said or thought "the Earth is round" or a similar proposition. His planning of round-the-world trips is itself a kind of expression of that belief.
So it seems unnecessarily restrictive to tie our attributions of beliefs too closely to propositional thoughts and speech.
Once we accept that beliefs need not be tied to propositional utterances, there's no fundamental barrier to attributing beliefs to animals. Why not say that a dog believes his bowl will contain food in the morning? Doing so can help us explain and predict the dog's behaviour, just as it does with humans.
But then, where do we draw the line? Can we say that a plant believes it's daytime (so it opens its flowers), or a thermstat believes the temperature is 20 degrees (so it switches off the heating)? We naturally feel some reluctance to extend the concept of beliefs as far as plants and thermostats. But the reasons I gave above still apply. Such models are still useful, and people do in fact sometimes use them, without committing themselves to the idea that plants and thermostats have thoughts or brains. You may say that this is just a convenient way of speaking, and that they don't really have beliefs. But I think this is to misunderstand the nature of language.
Language is fuzzy, with many of our categories having no well-defined boundaries. And insisting on such boundaries often misleads us. For example, insisting on a fundamental boundary between life and non-life makes it harder to see how life can evolve from non-life. Similarly, insisting on a fundamental boundary between beliefs and simpler informational states can make it harder to understand the nature and origin of beliefs. I'm not recommending that we state baldly that plants do have beliefs. My point is that there isn't a substantive fact of the matter as to whether plants have beliefs. It's a semantic matter of how far we feel comfortable extending the word "belief". What matters to me is seeing the continuity of informational states, from the simple states of a thermostat (or the simplest organisms) all the way up the spectrum to human beliefs, and then asking what these states have in common.
(If you're familiar with Wittgenstein, you might have guessed by now that I take a Wittgensteinian view of language.)
P.S. It's interesting to note the ambiguity of the words "think" and "thought". These can refer to cognitive processes, such as (but not limited to) the inward expression of a proposition. E.g. he thought about the problem, or he thinks (has the thought) "The Earth is round". They can also refer to states of belief. E.g. he thinks (believes) the Earth is round, or he thought (used to believe) the Earth was round.
I suspect this ambiguity can add to our reluctance to attribute beliefs to objects that don't have thoughts. Conflating these senses, we might say: of course a plant can't think that it's daytime; plants can't think! (This would be a fallacy of equivocation, since the first "think" means believe, while the second "think" probably means cogitate.)
Hi, Richard,
Personally, I don't have any problem associating beliefs with non-human animals like cats, dogs, rats and chimpanzees, or with humans who do not have language because (say), they're deaf and didn't have access to sign language, or human children, or feral humans, etc.
It seems clear to me that they can have beliefs.
As for propositions, I see talk about propositions as a way of talking about (among other things) the content of the beliefs, either of humans or of other entities, but I do not think that they need language; a dog can believe that there's food on the plate, and "that there is food on the plate" is a proposition, but that's our way of talking about what the dog believes, and doesn't require language on the dog's part.
I also agree about the fuzziness of language, and the lack of boundaries.
I would not insist on a strict boundary between life and no life or between beliefs and non-beliefs, but between humans and non-human animals for that matter.
That aside, there are cases in which something clearly is not alive, is not human, and does not have beliefs. On that note, I would be very reluctant to assign beliefs to, say, thermostats.
While assigning beliefs to them would not commit one to the idea that they have language, or that they can cogitate (if I' understand your usage of 'cogitate' correctly), I do not know that it wouldn't imply that they have some kind of mind or mental complexity that they do not have.
Also, I don't know whether there is a fact of the matter as to whether plants have beliefs. For all I know, it might be that plants are within the fuzzy zone; or maybe they're not; or maybe there is no fact of the matter in the case of plants, but thermostats do not have beliefs.
The fundamental point or difference is that humans actually think in a language, which is unique to our species, so beliefs have a different context for us. We can contemplate our beliefs and discuss them and rationalise them, which we do all the time.
Other species, on the other hand, have emotions and instinctive urges, which we call 'beliefs' in a metaphorical sense. As for thermostats and computers, and the like, having 'beliefs' and 'thoughts' is strictly metaphorical. Anyone who contends that they’re literal is having a lend.
Regards, Paul.
Paul,
The claim that other species have beliefs in a metaphorical sense implies that, for example, chimpanzees do not have beliefs, apparently because of their lack of human-like language (given your context).
But that would entail that the meaning of the word 'belief' is such that it requires that kind of language.
I do not find that plausible. As I explained in my examples, feral humans (with no language), deaf humans who haven't learned any sign language, etc., clearly have beliefs.
Moreover, young children have beliefs as well. Adult chimps are just as intelligent or more intelligent than young human children (it depends on the age; I'm talking about normal adults), and I do not see any reason to think that they do not have beliefs (btw, they make tools, like makeshift spears to hunt bushbabies, etc.; they make complicated plans, like elaborate hunting strategies, etc.; granted, they too have complex communication systems, even if less complex than ours)
Other animals are less smart than chimps, but still, using the word 'belief' as I intuitively grasp it, it seems to me that dogs and cats have beliefs.
Hi Angra,
I think it depends on what you mean by ‘belief’. Animals, like dogs, cats etc, anticipate events, especially when they’re hunting, and one can call that ‘belief’, but I think it’s a very narrow interpretation of belief. For humans, belief has a wider connotation, because it’s implied knowledge, so I make a distinction. For us, belief is something distinct from what we actually know. Other species don’t have the cognitive capacity to distinguish belief from actual knowledge.
You’re right that young children can have beliefs, even without language. For example, when they see something, like a toy, put behind a piece of furniture, they believe it’s still there, even though they can’t see it. I expect some animals would also have that ability of belief. But, in reality, I would call that knowledge rather than belief.
Regards, Paul.
Hi, Paul.
While other species may not have the capacity to engage in philosophy and ponder the relation between knowledge and belief, it seems to me that there is such difference.
For instance, a dog may well know (and hence, also believe) that there is a cat in front of him; but a dog can have false beliefs as well.
At least, that's my intuitive grasp of the words.
Regards,
Angra,
Yes, I would agree that a dog can hold false 'beliefs'. For example, he might anticipate getting food at a certain time of day and it doesn't arrive.
I make a distinction, because, in animals, I would contend that 'beliefs' are emotionally driven, whereas, in humans, beliefs can be reason-driven as well as emotionally driven, and I think this is an important distinction.
From an evolutionary point of view, reason-driven beliefs have been a significant part of our 'cultural' evolution, as opposed to our genetic evolution.
I'd recommend E. Brian Davies book, Why Beliefs Matter, subtitled Reflections on the Nature of Science. Davies is Professor of Mathematics at King's College, London. The book covers science, mathematics, philosophy and religion - a good read.
Regards, Paul.
Paul,
Thanks for the recommendation.
With respect to reason-driven vs. emotionally driven beliefs, I'm not sure I get what you mean by your distinction. Could you elaborate a bit, please?
Regards,
Angra.
I believe emotions came first in the evolution of sentience. But humans have elevated reason, as I think Aristotle pointed out.
We rationalise our beliefs with reason, even when they're emotionally based, which includes our prejudices and moral attitudes. Even evil is rationalised, which is what makes it evil in my view.
I'm not sure if that clarifies or confuses.
Regards, Paul.
I agree that emotions came first than the kind of complex reasoning that you're talking about. I'm not yet sure I get in which sense beliefs are reason-driven vs. emotionally driven.
When you say 'reason driven', you mean that humans engage in conscious reasoning about their beliefs?
If so, I agree that normal adult humans clearly can engage in conscious reasoning that individuals of other species can't, though the capability for doing so also came gradually; humans are the result of a gradual process of evolution, and there is no clear line separating us from other animals.
Yes and no. The distinction is that in humans, cultural evolution has overtaken biological evolution, and in a huge way.
Regards, Paul.
But the capabilities that human minds have are the result of biological evolution, and that includes the capability for engaging in the kind of conscious reasoning we engage in, and that was gradual.
Of course human minds have evolved, but there is a huge gap between us and other species, cognitively.
Possibly other hominids had similar abilities but are now extinct - we don't know. Evolution could occur in quantum leaps - what Stephen Jay Gould called punctuated equilibrium.
The big change for humans came when we developed language as being evolutionarily independent of our genes. We 'download' language from generation to generation, analogous to software, and we think in that language, which is what really separates us from other species. This evolutionary innovation has given us an enormous advantage as a species, because it led to civilisation. With language we can extend memories across generations and no other species can do that.
Regards, Paul.
Okay, there could be punctuated equilibrium, but punctuated equilibrium would include changes that are fast in terms of evolutionary periods, but still gradual in our usual sense of the term (see the Wikipedia article for more details).
By the way, tool making among our ancestors existed for millions of years, and the knowledge was transmitted from generation to generation.
Cultural transmission of that sort exists in chimps, killer whales (they don't make tools, of course, but they learn hunting techniques), etc.
Regards,
Angra
Of course, our language allows us for more complex cultural transmission than theirs allows them. But it's there too.
Yes, people make comparisons with other species, in terms of teaching their young, but they're not in the same ball park. We are the only species where cultural evolution has overtaken biological evolution and that's what makes us different, and language has been a big driver for that.
To be honest, I don't know if punctuated equilibrium is true or not, but what we do know is that evolution is chaotic (mathematically) which means it's totally unpredictable. It's fractal as many things in nature are.
I'm not arguing that we haven't evolved the same as every other creature on the planet, I'm just arguing that cognitively there is a huge gap between us and anything else. We are the only species that can even attempt to understand the universe in which we live. That alone makes us exceptional. If you don't agree then I won't argue with you.
Regards, Paul.
I agree that we're very different in that regard from any other extant species on the planet.
On the other hand, I would still say that there is no clear line distinguishing humans from non-humans, across time, and there wouldn't have to be such line if, say, gradual genetic modifications were introduced to get from human to non-human.
No one argues that we’re not primates, if that's the point you're trying to make - after all we share 98% of our DNA with chimpanzees; so somewhere we had common ancestors with apes. Can we stop this now?
Believe it or not, no one knows how speciation happens. You can read about it here.
Regards, Paul.
No, I wasn't arguing that we're not primates, but that there is no clear line separating humans from non-humans, as changes were gradual (and can be made so).
But since you'd like to stop it, I'll leave it there. :)
Regarding speciation, I would have to read the article to see what they mean by saying that no one knows (perhaps, they mean that some facts about the causes of some mutations are unknown, etc.), but it's behind a paywall.
Still, if you're interested in the issue of what is known about speciation, I would suggest (for instance) that you go to either Secular Cafe (subforum Life, etc.) or freeration (subforum Evolution/Creation), post the link you posted above, and you'll find interlocutors that are more informed on that subject than I am, and probably have access to the article.
Best Regards,
Angra
Thanks Angra,
I'll check it out.
Regards, Paul.
Hi guys, I saw a lot of interesting ideas scattered over the responses and the arguments got pretty far from the refuting Plantinga's. I'll try to summarize concisely:
1. What is "desire"? We can agree that it is an intrinsic physiologically-driven reaction to specific very common circumstances (eg, prolonged lack of food, presence of harming agent, etc). "Desire of food" otherwise called "hunger" universally appears in all humans, animals, plants and even amoebas at the circumstances of prolonged lack of food, unless sensing physiological mechanisms are out of order. So, desires are basically the same in ALL live forms (i.e. known 4 F's), genetically coded and clearly have evolutionary benefit.
2. "Beliefs" can be loosely seen in the framework of classical Pavlovian reflexes: a dog believes that the food will be in the bowl after a bell sound since this happened in the past many times, enabling establishment of a stable connection between several areas in its brain - one in the auditory cortex (hearing the bell), one in the lower brain (salivation, food-seeking) and one in the hippocampus (memory). Beliefs as learned reflexes actually mirror repeated co-incidences in the surrounding nature (i.e. correlations between certain seemingly unrelated things). Whether language is present or not, beliefs defined as such simply ARE specific established connections between neurons. Can we say that exactly the same neural structures in two different individuals of the same species HAS to be coding the same belief? Clearly not, exactly as in two identical computers the same program can be stored in different particular semiconductors. This obviously does not mean that this program has some mysterious properties irreducible to the semiconductors.
3. What is different with humans?
a. We can make correlations between things that are much more separate in time than other animals. Actually there is a clear trend in neurology - the more complex the brain the bigger temporal gap between correlated events it can overcome.
b. Language is a sophisticated way of transferring beliefs (information about correlated external events) between individuals. It adds a layer to genetically transferred correlations and those transferred using lower forms of language - sounds, gestures and imitated behavior. "Content" is simply coded information that (upon learning a language) allow one individual by shouting "tiger" to "arouse" in his friend's brain the same area as an actual tiger would. Again, it is nothing but modulated air waves inducing firing of groups of neurons.
In this framework:
1. Semantic epiphenomenalism is at best non-sequetur from naturalism/materialism, and in my view simply nonsense.
2. Content directly affects behavior.
3. Content reflects correlations in the surrounding world. Therefore, it clearly is the subject of adaptation and evolution.
4. As correlation is not causation, content may reflect true underlying link or simply frequent co-incidence. And here lies the only rational conclusion of Plantinga's - given naturalism and evolution many of our beliefs while adaptive are not true. He is right. And human history indeed proves that this is the case - huge number of human beliefs turned out to be false.
This is exactly why "revelations" are unreliable and the only way to get any true (or actually better say as close to truth as possible) beliefs/knowledge is through tedious and meticulous scientific inquiry with constantly doubting our observations and conclusions.
BTW Plantinga's case of various possible adaptive desire-belief pairs is obviously BS: desires come first evolutionary and they are very simple and few: survive, feed, mate. Any beliefs evolve to satisfy those desires as a later development. Therefore, Plantinga's desire to pet a tiger is neurobiologically and evolutionary nonsense.
The necessity to satisfy basic deep evolutionary-developed desires is exactly the constraint that makes true beliefs to be more likely adaptive i.e. selected.
I've come up with a counter argument called the Evolutionary Argument Against God or the EAAG. See below:
1. If god chose to use evolution as the method of creating human beings and all other forms of life, then god knowingly chose the method that requires the greatest amount of suffering.
2. If humans are the product of gradual evolution guided by god, humans must have acquired souls at some point during the process.
3. Once human beings had souls, they could be rewarded in an afterlife for the suffering they endured while they were alive.
4. If higher level primates are capable of third order pain awareness (knowing they are experiencing pain) then our pre-human hominid ancestors did too and they did not have souls.
5. Therefore god chose to create humans using a method that knowingly would involve conscious suffering that was not logically necessary.
6. An all-good, perfectly moral god who is incapable of unwarranted cruelty would not create beings that could consciously suffer in a way that was not logically necessary.
7. Therefore, the traditional notion of god who is all-powerful, all-knowing and all-good does not exist.
Premise one is relatively uncontroversial to most theistic evolutionists, although they certainly wouldn’t like my choice of wording. Some theists like William Lane Craig think of god like an artist who takes pleasure in the method for creating life using evolution. Another theory is that god chose to use evolution as a punishment for original sin. Regardless, god still willingly chose to create man using millions of other species merely as a means, and many of those species contained sentient beings who suffered tremendous ordeals. It seems odd to me that god would choose a method of bringing about man that requires millions of years of suffering.
For premise two, even if you believe that fully rational humans appeared at once in a single generation as some theistic evolutionists do, we still have enough evidence that our hominid ancestors and cousins like Neanderthals had language capability and that means they certainly had higher functioning cognitive rational faculties than modern day chimps and gorillas. So they were capable of consciously suffering and knowing they were suffering.
If premise 4 is correct, then this argument is logically valid and its conclusion follows.
So if this argument is successful this means theists like William Lane Craig and Alvin Pantinga have to accept that god is intentionally cruel and capable of committing unwarranted suffering. Which means he doesn't exist!
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